From Hydro to Living Soil – Brandon Rust's Organic Home Grow Journey

[0:00] Hey guys, Parker with Homegrown Cannabis Co. We're starting a new segment called Everyday Grows. We talk to different cannabis personalities and home growers like you and I, just to talk about their growing style, what got 'em started, and what systems they use in their garden. So for our first episode, we're gonna be talking to Brandon Rust of Bocci Earthworks. Let's get into it.
 

[0:18] So today we have Brandon Rust here. We've been talking a bit, and, uh, it's, it's, uh, exciting to have you on. Thanks for having me. Must be a little warm out there in Oklahoma, huh? So, yeah, we're having a little heat wave, I think about a hundred right now. Yeah, I think the last time I was there, uh,
 

[0:35] there was like, uh, tornado warnings and I had to delay some flights and stuff. But, uh, you know, I've, I've, I've thought about moving outta California, but it's, it's hard to get San Diego kids to move just about anywhere else. Oh, man. Uh, moving out of San Diego was the best decision I ever made in my life.
 

[0:55] Yeah. Well that, that's great to hear. 'cause I, I feel like I would miss it, but, uh, you know, Oklahoma seems a bit, uh, be a bit more amenable to what we're doing. Yeah. You know, I don't miss it at all. Uh, we were talking before and you said you, uh, grew up in East County over there, huh?
 

[1:11] That's right. I did, you know, I lived, I also moved in, uh, north County for a little bit when I was in middle school and high school, but then I went back to East County, so, Nice. Yeah, I was, I was, I was just out that way. Uh, helping a buddy's, um, uh, uh, like his mom move out from like East El Cajon
 

[1:31] and there's all those, uh, like Lakeside and stuff. There's all those, uh, bull riding rings and stuff like that. We talked about that. You know, everybody's got these strains that you, that are just, um, kind of, uh, cemented in your memory. And one of the, like, one of the strains that I have that's legendary in San Diego
 

[1:52] that we talked about with Bull Rider. Yep, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, there's, so there's a, there's Afghany Bull Rider, and then there's the original Bull Rider. The original Bull Rider was like mid, late nineties. Uh, and then anything after about 2001, it was mostly Afghan Bull Rider. Gotcha. There's two different stories behind each of those varieties. But oftentimes the Afghan bull rider gets confused
 

[2:27] with original Bull Rider and, you know, the original Bull Rider that was acquired as a cut, and nobody, nobody, to this day, nobody knows what the genetics were on that, that was acquired by Rex and Jbo outta San Diego at the, uh, Lakeside Rodeo. There was a rodeo circuit in town. I think they met a, I don't know if it was a, uh,
 

[2:55] they met a bull rider there and they got this cut. And then Hopper, who at the time was the road manager of the Cotton Mouth Kings, he was, they were all partners together on something and they created the Bull Rider brand. And so they, you know, started making t-shirts and they were growing that, you know, cotton Mouth Kings was singing about it.
 

[3:16] And they were kind of like the first people to, to, to like brand, really brand reach out and brand and market a, a cannabis cultivar. Uh, later on in 2001, my mentor, the guy that showed me how to grow and took me under him and his partner's wing, uh, dirty Harry, he, he got an Afghan from our friend, uh, Mo Head Red
 

[3:45] and Cro, and they were growing original Bull Rider and a bunch of other stuff out. And I think that Afghan firm, and it pollinated that bull rider, and that's where they got the Afghan bull rider from. They, you know, popped a couple of different seats. They found one that was really nice and that got run really heavily for about 11 years
 

[4:07] by the whole like, Afghan bull rider crew, you know, Jerry, Harry, triple D, chip, you know, myself and a, but it's a bunch of other people as well. So it became, you know, AR Bowl Circle had access to that. And, uh, a lot of, a lot of different guys, o you know, OGs were growing that out. And so a lot of it was hitting the market for, you know,
 

[4:32] over a decade until about like 2012 is when it kind of slowed down and people started switching things up to New varieties 2012, 2013. It was right around the time, right before Gorilla Glue hit the scene and right before, uh, or right around the time that like the Form Cup cookies came out. Yeah. 'cause that, that, that strain in particular, it's,
 

[5:00] it's, uh, so unique and it's, um, it's like when you, uh, have a terpene profile, it just kind of, uh, it, it, you, you can't get rid, you can't get it outta your memory, you know, that, that had this super dark green color to it. It has, its like spicy peppery smell. And I think the, um, so it was before I started growing,
 

[5:20] but I was exposed to it around, uh, I guess, uh, uh, later into that, uh, that whole story with it. But probably around 2005, 2006. And that was when they were going hard on the raids. You know, they were kicking in people's doors, you know, the feds cutting, uh, coming in and cutting down grows. But it's really interesting, uh, hearing about, uh,
 

[5:42] you know, some of these stories were a bit mysterious with strains and where they came from, what happened to them, you know? And as far as I had known, they had cut down, uh, you know, like the feds came in and cut down. So it was, uh, you know, here you're from San Diego and talking about that strain
 

[5:59] and, uh, hearing that there may be some of the, those genetics still kick it around. 'cause I, I was under the impression that they were lost. But, you know, it's, uh, there's, there's a bit of lore in, uh, surrounding some of these strains. You know, On the, uh, Boi Seed Bolt website, there are two Afghan Bull rider crosses.
 

[6:19] It was collaboration I did with Green Bodhi. And so there is Afghan Bull Rider across to 89 Northern Lights, which are regular seeds. And then there's Afghan Bull Rider Cross to AZ Kush, which are feminized. Um, but yeah, I mean, it was, it was one of those varieties that it's got, uh, it's very loud. It's pungent. It's got this fruity tering thing going on.
 

[6:46] It smokes like a haze, but it hits super, super hard. It's really like couch lock weed. Yeah. I, I, you know, I haven't smoked that in years, but I'll, I'll never forget the taste and the smell. So you had, uh, you talked about, uh, some of those guys from the East County kind of, uh, brought you under their wing and you had to grow.
 

[7:09] Tell me about one of your first grows and where you started and kind of what brought you to where you are now. Yeah, so my first, like grow would have been, so I had been working with the, the OGs that took me under their wing, dirty Harry and Triple, uh, triple D. And they had, there was we, okay,
 

[7:38] so there was this apartment complex that was called The Village. And before, uh, triple D and Dirty Harry moved in there, there was a band called Sprung Monkey from San Diego that used to live there. Okay. And they were already like, growing there. They were doing their thing. And, uh, another friend of ours, curb Dog was, was in there and he was growing.
 

[8:02] And then there was another guy in there named Chip that was growing as well. And these, the way that they were lined up is it was a fourplex that was facing inwards towards each other. And the same lady owned all eight apartments. And when the guys from Sperm Monkey moved out, uh, Harold and Derek took over the, the, uh,
 

[8:25] two end apartments and they set up, uh, a grow. So it was, you know, I think it was what, uh, like two bedroom apartment. And so it was one flower room and veg, and then there was like space in there to like dry s**t and all that other stuff. 'cause nobody was living there, just the grove. So they had two apartments right next to each other.
 

[8:43] The third apartment was, uh, some people that we knew that were supplying additional power to both, to both of the growers. And so the whole place was just filled up with growers or people that was kind of in on the whole deal. And when they moved out, uh, they were there for, I don't, they were there for a couple of years,
 

[9:03] but I worked with them for two years before they moved outta that place. And when they moved out, uh, that was my first grower. I took over the apartment with, uh, my business partner who is just a little bit younger than me, but I was like the kid, 'cause everybody else was 11, 12 years older than me.
 

[9:20] He's, they were, you know, like OGs. I, I, I thought of them even though they're younger than I am now when this was happening. Um, and this, my business partner, he was one of the dudes that I was selling a lot of weed to and stuff. So I was whipping packs to him all the time. And then when the opportunity came up,
 

[9:39] 'cause they were moving out and they were, they, because they had found a, another place where they were setting up like a 40 lighter or 50 lighter. And so they're like, all right, we're shutting down the apartments. And they're like, you want to take over this kid? And I was like, f**k. Yeah. So I hid up my boy and I was like, yo, what up?
 

[9:55] You guys are selling a bunch of weed. You guys just wanna fg start growing it? And they're like, yeah, well, what we have to do? I was like, look, hey you guys, if you guys put down then the money to get everything to outfit everything, I'll fg run it. And we'll f***g you guys come in and help work, he'll come help trim all that st.
 

[10:13] And what kind of systems were you running back then as far as like, uh, uh, feeding nutrients and lights? Yeah, so at that particular time, I was running two gallon ebb and flow bucket system. So they were the, like the Green trees. So they were the buckets that went inside of another bucket. So the first bucket had holes on the bottom,
 

[10:32] and they were filled with hydro ton, which is the, the lava rock type, the, you know, the pellet lava rock that would sit in another bucket that was plumbed to a brain with a timer on it. And then there was a pump in that bucket that went to the reservoir. And then inside the reservoir there was a pump that went
 

[10:51] through the bucket and everything was plugged into this brain system. And so we, I Still have some of those buckets now. Yeah, those are, I mean, I, those are old school. We would set our feeding schedule on there when it would, you know, go in when it would Right. Yada, yada. And, uh, so what, you know, I ran
 

[11:10] that same system for like 11 years and I ran, the majority of the time I ran general hydroponics, uh, three part with the Floralicious series, which is like some organic additives, like, uh, help meal and amino acids and stuff like that. Um, and then, you know, I think at the very end, before I switched over to soil, I was using Housing Garden
 

[11:35] and I was going in their a their hydro A and B with like enzymes, amino acids, that type. And then I switched over to soil back in, I think it was like 2011 or 2012, I switched over to soil. You know, the, the, you get this tried and true formula. And some of the guys that I learned from, we use the same,
 

[11:53] uh, the, the, the old, uh, general hydroponic juice. Uh, we even tried some of the Lucas formula using those, those blue buckets that you described, the Greentree buckets. And, you know, it's, um, so like what kind of benefit have you noticed from switching from that into, you know, 'cause I've, I've seen, you know, I've seen you on other podcasts.
 

[12:14] I've seen Bocci earthworks on a lot of the forums and stuff. So what are some of the main benefits that you've seen switching to all these, you know, being proactive, getting all these microorganisms and switching the soil versus kind of this old school hydroponic system? Well, the reason why I switched over to begin with was because there was some type of mechanical failure.
 

[12:36] I don't know if it was an AC or if it was the pump, but something went out, I think it was a pump, right? The pump, uh, that fills up the brain didn't go. And I lost like a whole room in like week five. So it's like all that time. And you know, back then it, you know, pounds went
 

[12:52] for a lot more, you know, so yeah, Like 44, 4800 Start, like 3,800 bucks. I think probably in like 2012, 2011 ever mean before then we were getting 48. But, you know, it started to slowly, slowly go down over time. But I had a whole room that I lost and it was like $40,000 worth of wheat. So it's like I ended up switching over to soil
 

[13:20] because soil's more forgiving and old water. Um, you know, better, you know, if the AC fails it, it's not gonna f*****g kill everything. So it was really just because of mechanical failure that I switched and I was still, I was running slow. I was still doing verigation stuff. So I was running house and garden. So I was still doing their, like whatever it is, their soil
 

[13:41] line at that particular point. But the reason why I switched over to organic, because, 'cause it was a bet, dirty, hairy was like, oh, I'm switching over to all organic, yada yada. My weed's gonna be f*g even better than it is. And I was like, fk. He's like, I was all, fk yeah, I'm gonna do it too.
 

[14:01] And he is like, I bet you you won't. And I was all, yeah, yeah, dude, I'm like out my room. I, he was bullshitting, by the way. Didn't you know, he didn't switch over. Um, but I did. And, you know, so I had to relearn everything about cultivation because at that particular point, even though I was taught
 

[14:19] for two years and I ran houses with some OGs before I started doing it on my own, I was basically just following rest. You know, I was like, this is what you do. This is what you do. I didn't under really understand the, the plant science of it. I knew how to look and, and identify deficiencies. I knew, you know, when I was supposed to harvest,
 

[14:40] I knew all the proper protocols and the procedures that go in place for the, for growing. But I didn't really understand nutrient dynamics. I didn't understand biology, microbiology. I didn't understand like all of the things that I now know. And so when I switched over, it was a learning process. And so I had to pull a lot of resources.
 

[15:05] I went to Probiotic Farmers Alliance, which is still a current Facebook group. I think that was back in like 2013 or 14 when they first started. And there was a lot of good information from, you know, organic growers. And I, you know, tried SUBPOOL recipe. I tried KOUTS mix, I tried all these different mixes and nothing was really what I wanted.
 

[15:27] And so what I started doing was I started learning about plant biology, microbiology, uh, learning, learning about organic chemistry and the different things that are happening within that soil. I learned about, uh, agronomy and about nutrient balancing and looking at what the actual target levels for not, you know, not just cannabis, but looking at what the target nutrients are at a wide
 

[15:52] variety of crops. And then really dialing those in using data. So the agronomy is really what changed everything. 'cause I had all the fundamentals. I knew how to do standard operating procedures from the hydro days, but then I also compiled that with an understanding of nutrient dynamics. Mm-hmm. And mi microbiology, plant biology, the environment, um, light, you know,
 

[16:19] Well, like when you're dealing with hydro, you know, it is very formulaic. You, you, you keep your, your solution in range, you keep it the right ac uh, ec and it, it's, you're following a recipe. And then as, as you were saying, you're self-taught. So back then, especially was very hard to extract information. You know, you had forums
 

[16:41] and you could try to bring information from, uh, agriculture over and apply it to cannabis. But a lot of times you're just looking at forums and, and you read, you know, 50 different opinions on what the best method is. And you, you really have to spend a lot of time to adapt what's gonna work best for your garden and your style.
 

[17:02] And so now you, you know, there's, there's a lot more information that's, uh, readily accessible and it's a little bit easier to kind of get yourself up to the level where everybody else is and to, um, find out the correct method to, uh, achieve what you want. And, you know, I know, so I, I have a couple different grows here.
 

[17:24] I do hydro indoors, and I'm, I'm, uh, I, I tried to adapt that outdoors with, as far as setting up that same pressurized system. But I had spoken to you, uh, before about automating these systems. And you know, the trouble with that is you'll have this equipment failure, and it'll be either the pump or the timer or some dripper that will either kill a plant
 

[17:49] or the entire crop. And so, um, as far as automating an organic grow, you know, you had, um, you have a lot of really great inputs. You know, your, um, some of the microbe recharges, we talked about mates. And so as, as far as you test your soil and, uh, add all these things. And, uh, as far as automating,
 

[18:16] we talked about, um, once you have your soil set and it's all at the right levels, do you just, uh, do you hand water and some of your compost teas? Or do you, uh, do you just add water? Do you have any sort of automation in your grow? So in my home grow, the only thing that's automated is my environmental parameters.
 

[18:38] But at the facility, we're just waiting for all the paperwork to be finalized. We'll have automation in there. And, you know, you can fully automate an organic system. It's not like you can't still build out a fertigation system to, you know, deliver water and nutrients to your plants just like you could in a hydroponic system. The benefit of, uh,
 

[19:01] especially when you start scaling out systems, the benefit of running, living soil or modified growing mix is that when you look at it from a logistics standpoint, it makes more sense. So it's much more cost effective. And the reason why is because when you're talking about scaled systems, the amount of labor that's needed for certain things, and the amount of waste that's generated is increased
 

[19:29] in the, in the, you know, in the s the organic cultivation practices, you're, it might cost a little bit more upfront for your media, but it stays there. So you're never removing it. If you're using rock wool or cocoa, typically what's happening is the cultivator is throwing all that media away, right? And so they go in there, when they go to do their,
 

[19:56] their harvest, they go, they harvest, they have to take all that media, they gotta dump it if they're using plastic pots and not just, you know, if they're, it depends on what types of media, but some cocoa is pre-filled, you know, plastic where they're just hooking their grippers up to it. If that's the case, it's less labor intensive than if
 

[20:15] they're dumping out pots, washing them, refilling them, resetting them. But they still have to throw away, make all that waste purchase more product set that all back up every single time. When, when, when you're using a soil system, what you're doing is you're going in and harvesting, you're basically doing your, your clean. You just go in there, clean up your room, like you would,
 

[20:37] you don't have to remove anything. So when that decreases labor, that decreases the, the time, and you're not creating waste, and you're also not purchasing more media every time, Well, you back yourself into a corner, right? So you have to like, already, uh, you know, be selling to, uh, reset for your next harvest or, or have something in the reserve.
 

[20:58] And, you know, like whether you're, whether you're purchasing soil for the first time or or other growing mediums, that's a huge expense. And like with Rockwell, uh, I, I know lots of people that just, uh, for smaller grows at least just toss all the cocoa and stuff. But the thing that I really like about soil is that, yeah,
 

[21:18] it's, uh, it's, it's an, it's an initial investment and you keep it, uh, maintained and, and like a lot of, a lot of organic growers, every season it gets better and better. So you just keep recommending it, revitalizing it, and that's a huge expense when you're resetting a a grow operation. Yeah. And when you're talking about also input costs,
 

[21:43] it usually costs about a dollar to $2 per yard of soil to recommend top dress rein to bring things back to nutritional sufficiency. So typically, right, one, you'll running one of these systems, you send out soil samples, maybe a week or five days before harvest, you get them sent out to the lab. That way, by the time you harvest
 

[22:08] and you're ready to reset, you'll have that data back from the lab. And you can, you know, at least I can, I built a nutrient calculator. Um, but what you can do is you can look at that data and determine how much of what meats to go back into that system to maintain nutritional sufficiency and balance with the nutrients that are in that system.
 

[22:27] So you don't create anta antagonisms with the nutrients, right? So the percentage of calcium to magnesium and potassium all need to be within a certain range. You know, you might, same thing with micronutrients. You don't want to have too much nitrogen, right? So we can look at all these things and we can top dress 'em in. And when we're talking about the actual input costs,
 

[22:49] so things like blood meal, soybean meal, those are usually used, your meals are usually be used for your nitrogen inputs. And those are most, are usually the most expensive thing. So you might pay like $50 or 60 bucks for a 50 pound bag of blood milk. Everything else that you buy is pretty much mineral based. Things like gypsum, uh, potassium sulfate
 

[23:12] and micronutrient sulfates, and things like gypsum that a cost $20 per 50 pound bag, Epsom salt, $25 for a a 50 pound bag, potassium sulfate's about $40 per a 50 pound bag. So in the amount that you're using is usually less than a cup per yard of any of the macronutrients that are gonna bring in calcium, magnesium, potassium, nitrogen, phosphorus.
 

[23:41] Well, and we, we talked about too, uh, your, some of the mates that you offer, you know, like I, I use humic acid often in my gardens, and we talked about, um, you know, reducing the amount or, or, uh, increasing the effectiveness of these inputs by using mates. So you can greatly increase, uh, the availability to the plant using humic acid.
 

[24:04] So, you know, a lot of these inputs have a very, um, like they have a long half-life, they take a while to break down. So humic acid is gonna speed that process up, and it can bring your cost down. They don't though. So the majority of these inputs are actually water soluble. So any of the mineral, the mineral sulfates, like gypsum
 

[24:28] for instance, you know, although it's not organic, it doesn't have carbon associated with it. It is, it's a naturally occurring mineral, right? And it has water solubility. It is a salt, right? Same thing with Epsom salt, magnesium sulfate, potassium sulfate. All of these things have solubility. So once you get them into the system, the, the plant will have nutrient ions available to uptake.
 

[24:50] The benefit is this, unlike a hydroponic system, those nutrient ions, they start to precipitate and become very inefficient about only 20, uh, 15 to 20% use efficiency of conventional fertilizers, salt based fertilizers. But when you have a modified growing mix, or you have high organic, um, carbon in, in a natural soil, what happens is you get this,
 

[25:15] you get these nutrient dynamics where the carbon that is being broken down through microbial metabolism is creating organ. And through microbial metabolism, you're getting organic soluble complexes that can cate those nutrient ions. And so instead of, instead of like a, a hydro system where you're frequently watering and you're getting a really low use efficiency, what we're doing is we're adding everything at once
 

[25:47] and having a really high use efficiency where we're putting it all in all at once, where all of those things are balanced and it's gonna stay soluble. Because what's happening is the biology and the carbon dynamics are working on those nutrients to keep them carbon chelated to soluble organic complexes. Humic and fulvic acids, organic acids, hydroxy made sia forres, uh, things they'll hold, uh,
 

[26:13] be held in biofilms. They'll be held onto the surfaces of, uh, the clay colloids or the surfaces of organic matter. And so what's happening is you'll, these modified growing systems that indoor cultivators are using are actually working more like a hydroponic system than it does an actual, you know, agronomic outdoor soil system. And the reason why is because the carbon dynamics
 

[26:41] that are in play in an organic, modified growing mix, you have about 45% biosphere and only about 5% lithosphere. So the lithosphere is the mineral component. Mm-hmm. That is being solubilized. And that process is expedited because the biology is, that is, is proliferating at such a great extent because there's so much carbon. And that works as a fuel source in an agronomic system.
 

[27:07] It's reversed where the lithosphere is about 45% and the biospheres at best 5%, and it's usually less than that. So those carbon dynamics, those energy dynamics, the, with that, you know, work on nutrients are far less in a, in a outdoor soil, and they don't exist in, in to, in hydroponics. So do you have any advice for somebody,
 

[27:33] 'cause I know we, we have a lot of new growers in newly legalized states, and it can be a little hard to source, um, you know, bag ready soil. Do you have any advice for somebody that's looking to improve their native soil? Um, like if there's a couple of products they could purchase from you and, uh, dig up a pile of dirt from their backyard,
 

[27:53] you know, of course some soil tests would probably be prudent, but you know, as far as that in compost or leaf cuttings, grass cuttings and, uh, maybe some of your microbes or something like that to improve their base soil. So I take a different approach to modified growing mixes than I do to agronomic out outdoor soils like native soils.
 

[28:14] And the re and the reason why is because of those carbon dynamics that we just talked about. Now, when it, when it comes to like, peat based or cocoa based media, if you can't source something, which you probably will be able to, you can always amend those things to bring them to nutritional sufficiency and be balanced. You might need to do some soil testing
 

[28:38] or use a nutrient calculator or reach out to me or someone like Doctor Kiss Organic. There's a bunch of people build the soil, they all do soil analysis, and you can take one of those potting mixes, have it tested, and then get a recommendation on what to do. So you know exactly what to do for every single bag
 

[28:57] of soil that you purchase. You know, that, oh, if I add this top dress amendment to this, it's gonna make everything where it needs to be. And this is a good starting point when it comes to movement, uh, the carbon. You don't need to do tons of composts and tons of, uh, you know, like, you know, crop cover, in my opinion in indoor,
 

[29:20] because we've already built good soil structure, we already have tons of carbon, the biology is gonna start breaking things down and keeping those nutrients soluble. Uh, humic phobic acids can definitely help because hu they're, although they are naturally produced, they are, they are not in a huge abundant, it's not a large percent of the soluble organic molecules
 

[29:46] that are in that system. So when you're adding additional hemic phobic, the humic acid does something different than the fulvic acid. But the fulvic acid is the real important one, because that's the one that binds or chelates with nutrient ions and keeps them soluble. So let's say you have a bunch of, uh, you know, you put a bunch of things into a, into a system,
 

[30:07] and maybe not all of it is soluble. Maybe you're using things like calcium phosphate and maybe you're using things like bone meal and maybe you're doing more of a meal heavy instead of mineral sulfates. It takes either chemical or it takes some type of chemical weathering to transform those, uh, into bioavailable forms. And usually that happens through microbial metabolism
 

[30:29] or environmental weathering. Um, How often do you add your humic acid in your microbial inputs? If, if you have a kind of a, a, a base soil at the standard that you would, uh, normally accept, how often do you have those mates? So if, and so here's the thing, every single soil is different. And so that's why I always recommend soil.
 

[30:52] And I don't like to just give people, oh, this is how much you need to use at this point. Right? I'm gonna give you an example. The my beds at my grow here at my house, they are tested. And so I know how much nutrients are in them. Now I can grow. My last run, I, you know,
 

[31:13] I did fantastic, huge buds. It was water only. I didn't even use any humate because the first two runs before that, I was using mates and it, they create their, they have a high use efficiency, so when they chelate nutrient ions in that bed, they stay available, right? And so I didn't need to add anything else except a little bit of nitrogen,
 

[31:35] um, on my last runs. And so I didn't have to use any of the, the humate alls I did was water and microbes, and then my integrated pest manages. But if you're in a, like, but another example is on my outdoor plants, right? So those plants are all in native soil, and I have really, really sandy soil.
 

[31:57] And although I've been growing in it for two years, improving its quality by doing compost and putting humate fertilizers down, adding microbes, adding some things like crop cover, my soil is improving over time. Mm-hmm. But I still feed probably once every three weeks. Like this morning I went out there and I fed everything, humate, fertilizer and microbe.
 

[32:19] Right? And it's because the soil fertility out there is much, much lower than in my beds. If we're looking at conventional crop production, let's say you're growing, uh, greenhouse tomatoes and greenhouse peppers, right? And you're using that native soil in that greenhouse, you would be applying humate fertilizer about four to six times through an entire growing season,
 

[32:48] which usually is about eight or nine months. Okay. Now, quick question. So you said you feed every three weeks. So what's the point that you switch from your, uh, uh, veg formulation to bloom, uh, formulation if you're feeding every three weeks? Well, that's the cool thing about the humate, the humate fertilizers. 'cause my product isn't just humic and fulvic acid.
 

[33:12] One, it has the highest amount of fulvic acid in any single standalone product that I have actually seen. And I did a bunch of research research on this, but it's also a complete fertilizer. So it has nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, it has some ne uh, secondary and some micronutrients as well. Nice. I have three formulations, formulation, a co the complex formula, which is an even institution
 

[33:38] of NPK and then a high flowering formulation. And so I've been feeding the high nitrogen formulation, uh, the whole time they've been VEing. I started off with a light application May 18th when I put everything out there from seed. And That's a late start. That's, uh, that's around when I started this season. That's, uh, my plan. I I like
 

[34:06] 15 feet tall. Yeah, I, I saw some of those plants that, and those are in native soil out there. Those are, uh, native, you have some good sun out there. I'm telling you, native soil and humate are the, and dude mi, the micro humate combination together is fan as it doesn't matter what you drought, it's 'cause it has some
 

[34:27] Yeah. And, and that, uh, that sprayer you got there too, uh, that, that, that thing is badass that, uh, fog down the whole outside garden. That's cool. Yeah. It's too big for my five gallon Ryobi sprayer. Everything's way, way too big. I can't even reach them on my stepladder. So, um, I had to bust out the industrial fogger Again.
 

[34:51] You know, I switched, I switched to complex probably about two weeks ago because I noticed that they were starting to show some, uh, stigmas on the plants and the males started flowering. Usually not always, uh, the males will usually, uh, flower first, at least with a lot of the genetics that I, that I'm breeding. Um, not always. In fact, the ones that I choose are the ones
 

[35:17] that, you know, I usually flower a little bit later. So I got rid of all of those males that were flowering early. I don't like to use those, but I knew that it was about that time for everything to flip. And so I switched over the complex and then today, um, everything is in flower and they've been flowering for about two weeks,
 

[35:36] maybe two and a half weeks. And today I switched over to the high potassium, the K you made. So it's got higher, uh, amount of potassium and phosphorus and, and, but the potassium is really what you're looking for, a higher potassium. Um, you know, I wanted to go back to something that we talked about earlier when we,
 

[35:58] when I talked about following a recipe. And 'cause you could take the great, you know, you can take a great, uh, hydroponic cultivator and he might not know the fun, the fundamentals of nutrient dynamics. Like he might know that he needs to add this much a, this much b this much, this, this, this and this, and this is the, the time and the environment.
 

[36:19] And you, you might know the SOP, but he may not understand that in that solution, the proper ratio of calcium is 200 ppm. The proper ratio of magnesium is 32 to 42 ppm. The proper ratio of potassium is a hundred, 150 ppm. You may not know exactly what that is. And so they're just basically, you know, taking a formulation
 

[36:44] and putting it together as a recipe instead of really understanding, you know, the, the dynamic of Yeah. Well that, that's kind of the, the journey of each grower, right? This is one of those, those hobbies that you can really dig so deep into. And, you know, we all start out following a recipe and then you, you, uh,
 

[37:07] strike out on your own doing your own research, you might find a really great resource that's, you know, already put in the footwork. And so we're, we're in a great time for new growers to really elevate themselves and to listen to people like you, uh, listen to people like Kyle Cushman. And, you know, I'm still learning myself.
 

[37:26] I've, I've been growing for, uh, you know, over a decade, but I feel like I'm still learning myself. And so this is a great time for new growers to, uh, be able to reach resources like you and, and figure out how to bring their growers up to the level. Yeah. Well, I can give you a, a little pro tip.
 

[37:45] If you are new, or even if you're experienced, but you haven't gone down the rabbit hole of soil agronomy and started looking at soil data, it will change everything fundamentally. It will start changing and you can leap ahead. Uh, it doesn't matter how much experience, if you, if you were only growing for one year, had one year
 

[38:11] with soil testing, and you were looking at that, you were going through it, correlating what you're seeing to the day, it, it makes for, you know, years of once you start understanding nutrient dynamics and, and plant responses. Yeah. It's functioning Well. I'd love to pick out a subject and do a deep dive on, on, uh, one of those interactions or,
 

[38:34] or one of those mechanisms with, uh, with soil and, and help to bring this information out to new growers next time. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well, it's been a pleasure having you on and I look forward to our next episode, and I hope you stay cool out there in Oklahoma. Thanks. Have a good one guys. Thanks for having me on.
 

[38:53] And, uh, if you, if anybody's looking for high quality nutrients, microbes and amendments, cost effective and also, uh, has a high UU nutrient use efficiency, you can check out bocci earthworks.net, everything listed on the website. So Hope you enjoyed that. Make sure to like and subscribe. We'll see you on the next episode of Everyday Gross.