This Vape Hides Your Smoke!

Kyle: Coming to you live from MJ Biscon in Las Vegas, filmed right here on Equity Row and proudly sponsored by 40 Ton. Today, we're joined by Davis from Octave, a true innovator in cannabis consumption technology.

Kyle: Well, hey everybody, we're here with Davis from Octave. Octave is known for designing some new and innovative ways for the cannabis community to imbibe.

Davis: Yeah, exactly.

Kyle: So, I was getting to know you a little bit earlier, and we have some interesting products we're going to show. But I'd like the crowd to get to know you a little bit before we get into the products. Cool?

Davis: Cool.

Kyle: You were telling me you're from California?

Davis: No, I'm from DC actually.

Kyle: From DC? But you're based in California?

Davis: Yeah, our team is.

Kyle: Right. And I had asked you what brought you to the cannabis space, and you told me a little story about a federal indictment you were involved with. You want to share that triumphant story?

Davis: It is triumphant, actually. Yeah, so I've always been into cannabis. Of course, it's changed my life. I fell in love with it at an early age, got really into it, and was in the legacy market. When I was about 22 years old, I got indicted by the federal government for conspiracy to smuggle 100 pounds from Canada into Montana.

Kyle: Oh, you look like a conspirator.

Davis: Exactly, right? But I'd never been to Montana. It was just this crazy indictment where they went really deep—down to a team of guys— 

Kyle:  The guy at the Jiffy Lube who changed the oil in the car, all that. Whatever. 

Davis: But the reason the story is interesting is that we actually took it to trial. The case was so flimsy that we went to federal trial and beat the case.

Kyle: Did that cost you a lot of money?

Davis: Oh yeah, for sure. Well, it cost my dad a lot of money, honestly. I ended up paying him back later, but my dad helped me out. He was actually a lawyer too, so that was a big part of it. But honestly, that really opened my eyes about how close I was to getting 10-20 years in jail. I basically got off because I had money, probably because I'm white, and because my dad was involved in the system. If I were an underprivileged or brown-skinned person, I probably would be in jail right now or at least would have been for like 10 years. So, it opened my eyes to how messed up the whole system is. At that point, I decided, "Hey, I really still want to be a part of this community. I love cannabis, but I need to figure out a safer way to be in it." That’s how I got into hardware.

Kyle: Cool. So, you said that one of your first products was kind of a stash tray?

Davis: Yeah, the stash tray. It was basically a tea set for your cannabis ritual, right? A rolling tray, a grinder, an ashtray, a lighter, a container—all magnetized to this tray. Then it would fold up and go into a box that looked like a book, so you could put it up on your shelf. That was like 10-11 years ago. It still sells and does pretty well, but it’s slowed down since it’s been so long. That was kind of the first thing I made, and where I really learned how to make things.

Kyle: That’s cool. A stash tray is a very necessary item. But the reason why we have you here is the innovation side—coming up with new ways for the community to smoke and all. I noticed you have a pretty innovative new vape pen. Tell me about that.

Davis: Sure. This is the Flight Box. We just put this out a couple weeks ago. It’s a hidden cartridge device, so you put your cart inside, and it’s hidden inside. It sort of looks like a nicotine vape, so it’s discreet in a way.

Kyle: People just smoke all day long everywhere—at their desk.

Davis: Exactly. The biggest thing with this one is we’ve actually incorporated a removable and replaceable filter. So, you hit it, flip the switch, and then breathe the smoke back into the unit. It catches the smoke.

Kyle: That’s so cool. When I worked at High Times, we smoked in the office, of course. But, you know, we were in an office building with lots of other businesses.

Davis: Sure.

Kyle: So, we weren’t allowed to smoke the place out. We had this device called a mute, 

Davis: Like a sploof, basically. You breathe into it. 

Kyle: This guy back in the day had a whole bunch of old army gas masks, and he cut the tops off of 2-liter bottles and attached the gas masks to them with a mouthpiece. Everybody called them mutes. He was trying to get a business going. We tried to help him, but unfortunately, it never turned into a business. We all sat with a mute at our desks—took the hit, and then blew the smoke out through the mute. Yeah, and I think a lot of people are going to appreciate that. 

Davis: Honestly, it’s not even just about being secretive. It’s more about being polite. Like you just said, in an office situation—sure, you can smoke and be crazy, but sometimes you’re in a museum or an office, and you want to just be polite. It doesn’t have to be just about being discreet.

Kyle: Absolutely. I think that’s great. And I think this is super innovative too. I’ve never seen anything like this. Tell me about this.

Davis: This is the Turp Timer. It’s basically a glorified IR thermometer, basically. It has an IR thermometer that reads the temperature of your banger—you see the red on the hand? And it has a laser light to line it up. You go in here, set your temperature, and when it reaches the temperature, it beeps and turns green to remind you to take your dab at the perfect temp. Yeah, we put this out two years ago. We did collabs with Stiiizy, Cookies, and Mothership Glass. This one’s one of the bigger things we’ve put out.

Kyle: I love the iridescence.

Davis: Yeah, that’s the special candy edition.

Kyle: Cool.

Kyle: I've basically put out 30-plus products, but I don't want to, you know, bring out a aorus board and like show off and make this like a sales thing. But I do think it's super important to talk about how innovation is super important in our industry altogether. I think, like, even at this show—we're at MJ Biscon—there's just endless factories SL brands that are putting out the same things. Like, you just see a lot of rebranded things. So I think it's super important to have the custom aspect of it because we're still an immature business altogether—an immature industry. Um, and so I just find it super important, even from like a moral standpoint, to innovate instead of just imitate what a lot of other people are doing.

Kyle: That's why we've got you here, Davis, 'cause you stand out.

Davis: Love it, love it.

Kyle: And, uh, you know, I'm getting old—closer to 60 than I am to 50—and, uh, I still love my bong, my water pipe, you know?

Davis: Yeah.

Kyle: But I admit I am a fan of innovation and tech.

Davis: Sure.

Kyle: You know, and, uh, what's new on the horizon? You got anything that you're working on?

Davis: Yeah, there's a couple things. Um, one thing I've been working on for like five years now, and done a bunch of different prototypes, is a roasting device. Uh, I mentioned it to you earlier, but, uh, basically, we figured out a way to combine—it's a flower device—and we figured out a way to combine combustion and vaporization. So, of course, combustion's been around for thousands of years. Like, you know, they find Chinese cavemen with cannabis on them, right? And everybody's smoked for a long time. Vapes or dry herb vapes have been around for like 20 years. Uh, vaping is tasty, like, when you vape flower it tastes good, and it's fairly efficient. But for me—and I think you too 'cause we talked about it—I always find myself, like, wanting more. Like, I'll vape and then I'll smoke a joint or hit a bowl, right? And so that feeling of not feeling satisfied is what led me down this path to create something that combines both combustion and vaporization.

Davis: So I'm calling it a roasting device. Uh, been working on it for five years. We're putting it out in April 2025. Um, I can show it to you a little later if you're interested.

Kyle: Is it going to be like a handheld or is it going to be something you apply to a bowl?

Davis: It's a handheld device, and it uses biodegradable bamboo chambers. So you fill these chambers, like a K-Cup, and then you have this biodegradable chamber filled with flower. You put it in the device, you roast it for four minutes, and then you throw away the bamboo, right? And so it's completely replaceable. Um, and it's got... this, I'll show it to you another time, but it's basically this whole system of a device and a container that holds these bamboo pods. But the biggest thing is the roasting aspect, right? Where you're getting the satisfaction and the full spectrum of combustion, but at the same time you're getting the efficiency and the terpenes of vaporization. Um, and so I think we figured something out because, you know, I'm stuck on it. I'm basically, like, all I do is roast now. Um, and the people, like the engineers that are working on it and people on our team, are really into it. So I think we figured something out. I'm pretty excited to see how the industry reacts to it.

Kyle: I think that's cool because, for me, the smoking experience is just as important as the actual effects.

Davis: Agreed.

Kyle: You know, I don't like to, I don't like to be left with a harsh throat at the end of the day or a headache, you know. So it's got to be clean, and that's why I like the water pipe or the vape. Vaping is great for when you don't want to get a harsh throat.

Davis: Yeah, for sure, for sure. And there's the taste to it, man. Like, even if you notice, like, when you light—I mean, when you light weed on fire, you're literally exploding it. Like, it's lighting on fire and becoming ash very, very quickly. That's sort of the concept of roasting. You know, like, if you had a turkey, you don't just light it on fire—you slowly heat it up to bring out the flavor. So I think that applies, just like vaporizers—it brings out the flavor, but it's missing the charm, like the little bit of throat hit that you get from smoke.

Kyle: I get it because I've always been the one that, um, I never suck the bong hit through. I always figure that, by the time you get to that ash at the end, everything's already been vaped. Whatever wasn't burnt has already been vaporized by the heat anyways. So I always say, don't pull the hit through, tap it out. And my bong stays a lot cleaner that way.

Davis: Well, it's even—it's like, you remember the term "waste it to taste it," you know?

Kyle: No, say that again.

Davis: Oh, really? That was a big thing in the dabbing community—like, low temp—you waste it where there's—you get crazy flavor. And so I think that applies to flower too. Like, as the price of flower goes down and it gets commoditized, it's worth wasting it if you get the most flavor out of it, like you just described. If you're in a legal state and you can't get a bunch of weed for cheap, then you're probably going to burn it all the way. But if you're growing for yourself or you're in a legal spot where the price is low, then you'll waste it to taste it.

Kyle: Yeah, I like to say growing your own weed tends to lead to unfettered sharing.

Davis: Makes sense, makes sense.

Davis: That's the point though, right? That's the point.

Kyle: You know, it's just a great community of people and innovators like yourself and all and, uh, you know, being at MJ Biscon, I can't—there's like several thousand vendors here. 

Davis: It's pretty crazy.

Kyle: And, uh, it just shows you how far we've come, but like you said, how far we have to go because it is still in its infancy.

Davis: I think there's a lot of space for new tech. Like, even we haven't had, like, the big money come into the hardware side of things.

Kyle: Like Coca-Cola money?

Davis: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it seems like we kind of messed up. We did bring in a bunch of, like, alcohol money and a bunch of, you know—California, they got really overfunded with the cannabis brands, and it seems like they kind of [ __ ] the bed. But I think there's still space with the hardware side of things, right? Like, I think eventually, you know, big tobacco is going to come in and put money in. And I think there's just—you know, it's still very early in the innovation side of things where I think there's new ways to smoke and vape that we haven't figured out yet. And that's sort of like—I decided to make that my life mission to be one of the guys that's trying to figure it out.

Kyle: I'll buy that ticket. It's got to be, right? Yeah, I mean, they're always figuring out new ways to drink alcohol.

Davis: True.

Kyle: They got those little fog chambers.

Davis: I was about to say the vapor thing. You seen that?

Davis: You get, like, super—you get drunk immediately, right? Yes, exactly.

Kyle: And, yeah, so, I mean, as we're going forward, tell me—does Octave—how do—what does that name mean to you?

Davis: I love that question. Um, so I've created a bunch of brands, right? I have Meister. I have Clean Core. Octave is our, like, top brand. And look, I mean, I attribute most of my creativity to psychedelics—DMT, psilocybin, acid. Um, and I've always been obsessed with sounds, like the way—you know, I don't know if you've done DMT before, but when you get in there, sounds become sights, right? You can actually see sounds. It happens with ketamine too. Uh, and so I've always been obsessed with the idea that sound can affect the way things look. And even, you know, when you put dust on a plate and run sound through it, it makes a crazy pattern. So that's what the word Octave means—a combination of two sounds.

Davis: And so, in the very beginning, when I—I live in China now, actually, because I'm developing these products, which is an interesting dynamic because I'm a community guy. Yeah, it's interesting. Um, but I went there because I, you know, didn't have a lot of funding, and I wanted to find the people that could help to really build my dreams, like crazy complicated expensive technologies. And I met some really cool Chinese guys, honestly—like, really on-the-level weed guys that happen to be Chinese, which is super interesting, right? So we got deep in with each other, and we created a partnership, and that's literally what created the idea for Octave.

Davis: We're combining the Chinese technology and the United States technology into one thing, similar to how, with an octave, you combine two sounds to make a more beautiful sound. So that's where it came from. Uh, but it's—I know it's touchy too because people don't like—especially in the glass community, people don't love China. And, you know, there's a lot of civil rights things and all this, but it's been part of, like, in order to pull off high-level technology, it's sort of something that I have to do at least for now. Eventually, I'd love to move manufacturing or even, like, R&D and development in the United States. Um, but just from the funding side of things, I've had to—I've had to do it.

Kyle: Well, that's commendable. I mean, it seems like you've got a wide-open landscape in front of you.

Davis: I think so.

Kyle: And, uh, are there any trends currently in the cannabis space that you're following or that you see yourself wanting to try to get ahead of?

Davis: Yeah, there's a bunch. Um, I think it's super focused on flavor right now. Even, like, the roasting device I was talking about is, of course, focused on flavor. Um, you know, the whole terp narrative and how people are realizing that it's probable that terpenes actually affect the way that THC and all the cannabinoids affect your body. Um, so just in the device side of things, postless is really big right now.

Kyle: Costless?

Davis: Yeah, so cartridges and disposables—they normally have a post in the middle that is airflow. A lot—you'll see a lot of the new brands here are doing postless.

Kyle: What's the benefit?

Davis: Basically, like, more room in the cartridge.

Kyle: Yeah?

Davis: More room in the cartridge and also it should be a cooler hit. And then also less chance of metal contamination because there's no metal post in the middle. That's a big thing. But altogether, to answer your question, I think it's really just the flavor-focused thing. And, you know, I love getting high, but also, like, the process or even the ritual of breaking up the weed and smelling it or taking a dry hit. When I think back about it, that's kind of—that's one of my favorite parts. And so it makes sense that the flavor is a focus. And so, at least for me, that's what I'm trying to catch up with—understanding that getting high is an outcome, but it's not always the main focus.

Davis: Even, like, people that are obsessed with high-THC flower—like, I'm kind of into the terp-y side of things. So I've been working on devices, and I see that most of the industry is starting to realize and work on technologies that are more focused on the flavor instead of just the potency.

Kyle: They definitely go hand in hand. And I think that, uh, if you focus on, uh, basically flavor—what I'm calling quality—so you're focusing on the quality of the delivery.

Davis: Yeah.

Kyle: And once you optimize that, I'm wondering if there will be an opportunity to actually flavor things in a non-crappy way.

Davis: I mean, like, are you talking about, like, when you say crappy way, you're talking about the whole spraying thing that's going on right now?

Kyle: I don't—I'm just saying, like, you know, back in the day, we had strawberry-flavored rolling papers and, you know, all these crazy things and stuff. And sometimes they worked, and sometimes they didn't.

Kyle: I'm just wondering because we're talking about flavor, we're talking about the taste, and I'm just wondering—you know, science is a wonderful thing, technology is a wonderful thing—and I'm just wondering if there's any vision for being able to, you know, enhance the flavor.

Davis: Yeah, but you are completely aware of the whole spray packs phenomenon right now, right?

Kyle: Unfortunately, yes.

Davis: It's pretty frustrating.

Kyle: Yeah.

Davis: They've gone from spraying on trichomes—they used to do that with the keif, the dust, and try to get away with that in the cups and stuff.

Kyle: Look at all the trichomes on this bud.

Davis: I know some people that are consumers that prefer the spray packs, which is crazy.

Kyle: See, that's why I enjoy talking to somebody like you because even though you're creating electronic devices primarily for vaping and things like that, talking to you earlier, I found out that, in your heart, the cannabis and the smoking experience and the flavor is what's really important. That's what's really important to me—the whole experience, like you said. And, you know, rolling that joint and then, hey man, take a taste it—take a dry hit off. The ritual of a cipher—no, don't light it yet, just take that.

Davis: Oh, oh, the dry hit.

Kyle: Right, the dry. You know, the whole conversation about how you grew it, how long did you cure it for. Um, you know, all that stuff is kind of lost a little bit in the vaping.

Kyle: Yeah, um, so I'm just glad to see that people like yourself that are innovating are still considering that smoking a joint or smoking weed—or toasting weed, 

Davis: Roasting, 

Kyle: Roasting weed. 

Davis: Trying to create this term.

Kyle: You know. But all of these things—this is what innovation is all about, you know.

Davis: Well, it's also—I mean, I think what you're getting to is it's just—it's about more than just getting high. Like, getting high is what happens, but the whole ritual, and the social aspect, and the stories around it. It's—

Kyle: Drinking isn't just about getting drunk.

Davis: Exactly.

Kyle: And I don't even drink, but I know that. But people go to a bar for the experience. You go to hang out with your friends. Sometimes you taste something extraordinary, and you go, "Yo, you got to taste this drink."

Davis: Exactly.

Kyle: And you pass it to your friend and go, "Wow, that's good. I've never had that before."

Davis: Exactly.

Kyle: And that's what I want to keep alive, you know. As we get closer and closer to this culture where everything is just "slap it in, dab it up, height of potency," you know, we still have—we, there's still a culture. You know, and I think it's just a matter of—even though we're not running from the cops so much anymore, we're not hiding up in the hills—and that's where the culture came. That's where the counterculture came from, because we had to counter from the regular, you know. Now we're part of the traditional culture.

Davis: Well, also, you know, you're in California. I'm in DC, or most of the time. We kind of forget though, under 5% of the world is legal. Literally 95% of the world—a lot of these countries—China, they'll kill you if you have over 10 grams, right? So there's billions of people that haven't—I mean, if they get weed, they're just trying to get high. They don't have the opportunity to appreciate the flavor. They just want to [ __ ] get high because they have this crazy opportunity that they've never had before. So it's honestly—it's like the market, or even the culture—because we've been in this legal state for so long. Altogether, it allows us time to mature and appreciate the ritual, the flavor, all that. But yeah, 95% of the world—like, if they get a gram of weed, they're like, "Holy [ __ ], I'm excited."

Kyle: Unfortunately, for me, in my perspective, I think that 95% of Americans that smoke weed—

Davis: Agree.

Kyle: —are really just smoking it just to get high.

Davis: Agreed.

Davis: I know you're going to say that.

Kyle: Yeah, and, uh, and it's okay. I'm not harshing anybody, but I do feel like you're missing something, you know. You're missing out on something—some sense of community, some sense of history, some sense of nostalgia.

Davis: What about—do you appreciate the smell or the taste so much that you would literally be excited to do that without getting high? Like just a turp-y taste—not like CBD, but just say, like, you did a mocktail.

Kyle: Yeah, like—

Davis: Do you think you love the smell and the ritual enough that that would be enough sometimes for you?

Kyle: I'm thinking about it, you know. I mean, I sometimes—you want to just give the answer that the guest wants, you know, make them happy, and then other—

Davis: No, I'm asking this a real question.

Kyle: Um, you know, it's like, uh, like I said, I always said I'm not much of a drinker.

Davis: Sure.

Kyle: But—if I can't see, like, being in a situation where I would choose non-alcoholic alcohol—

Davis: Sure.

Kyle: —so I really don't know, you know. I think that there are—there definitely is a segment of consumers that would absolutely appreciate that statement. For reasons like, um, you know, I'm a—I'm a soccer mom. I get high occasionally, right? You know, once in a—not even every day.

Davis: Okay.

Kyle: And so now we're out, we're doing this thing. I'm out with my friends, and we're not getting high, but somebody has something to give me that stimulation.

Davis: Well, this is—we've talked about this. Like, as I've gotten older, um, sometimes when I smoke weed, I don't feel like I want to get super high, especially in a social situation.

Davis: So it's—it's just an interesting thought. Like, smoking it just to taste it. Smoking it just to roll it and do the dry hit, and then, you know, in a social situation—is that, you know, are you kind of bitching out, or— I think—like, are you—

Kyle: You know, I think it could be something. For me, I have never said, "I think I'm too high."

Davis: Really?

Kyle: I have.

Davis: I—before—

Kyle: Maybe it's how I got the job, who knows.

Davis: [Laughter]

Kyle: But, you know, my wife says it, you know, almost daily. You know, "I'm sorry." I'm like, "Well, then why did you smoke so much—" [Laughter] So I think for people like that, I think there could actually absolutely be an enjoyment. 

Davis: Maybe there's these—like you said, the soccer mom, or there's like an older dude that's got kids, and he misses smoking weed, but he, like, has [ __ ] to do. He doesn't want to get too high, I guess. But I don't know. I think we'll see what happens as the world grows up and as weed becomes more prolific—or basically more accepted or reachable. I wonder if there's going to be a segment of smell and flavor connoisseurs that aren't really about weed or about getting high—they're just about the taste and the flavor. We'll see. We'll see.

Kyle: It's very interesting. It's so complex. I mean, it's got to be one of the most, uh, complex odor profiles. 

Davis: It has the largest spectrum of flavors of any plant, right? Like, that's where I think there's, like, a super interesting— I mean, you remember, you get certain bags, and you smell it and be like, "This has to be fake. Like, it smells like straight-up bubblegum." Like, how does it actually smell like this?

Kyle: Exactly.

Davis: And it's just because cannabis has the widest spectrum of terpene profiles of any plant known to man, right?

Kyle: I—I'm convinced that, you know, if you had enough time and enough space, you could bring out any flavor known to man, I think, in cannabis.

Davis: Yeah. Marker, gas, piss, like sweet—it seems like every couple of years, a new—

Kyle: Peanuts.

Davis: Yeah. It's like, uh, you know, Skittles.

Kyle: Yeah, Skittles.

Davis: It's awesome. It's— That's what I think what we're getting to, too. It's like, yes, getting high is great, and we love it. We're, you know, cannabis guys. But this—just like the flavor profile, the look, the story, the ritual, the growing. Like, even when you were talking about LEDs or even you were showing me your grow, it's like you're clearly very proud of that—as you should be. And that's, like, such a deeper part of the industry other than just getting high. And so, I—I hope that—I hope the weed world wakes up enough where everybody can have the ability to—to get that deep into the story instead of just getting high.

Kyle: I just have a dream that one day—you know, you know how basically every war, every argument between nations—I picture it being settled over the clink of a glass of alcohol.

Davis: Yeah.

Kyle: Maybe not every single one, but certainly a lot of them, you know. And I picture one day two leaders just won't be able—and one of them will say to the other, "Just hit the peace pipe. Take a toke off of this." And then the commiseration just begins. The smile starts. And, uh, collaboration and compromise and all of these things that come from, you know, come out of obstinance and people's obsessions—and cannabis seems to really just cut right through all of that.

Davis: It also—I mean, imagine if it became that acceptable and people were actually doing that—like leaders or kings or presidents, whatever. I feel like war would be reduced, for sure, right? It's like, dude, once you get super high, the idea of war or going to war against somebody—"Go and kill you, dude"—it's kind of the last thing. But alcohol, for sure, leads to a shitload of violence. And so, the fact that people are cheersing alcohol to commiserate or, like, collaborate—it makes a lot of sense that there's still a lot of violence and war going on.

Kyle: Well, this has been fun, Davis. And I want to ask you finally—for all the viewers out there, um, as an entrepreneur, a successful entrepreneur, um, give some advice to some of these people out here who are just itching to get started.

Davis: Uh, I always go back to this, but it's keep going. You know, step up, don't give up. I mean, that's—when you look at the stories of people that have had success, there's always these crazy hardship stories. And I've been through a bunch of them. I mentioned earlier being, you know, indicted. I've had multiple situations where we almost went out of business—inventory issues, legal issues. There's been situations where I'm sitting there, and I'm just like, "I want to give up. I'm in super pain right now. I don't want to keep going." And the only way you get past it is you just push past it. And for me personally, all of those situations—when I look back years later—I realize why they had to happen. And the best part of that, for me, is that when I get in those situations again, I can look back and say, "Hey, like, this has happened before. You just have to keep pushing."

Davis: So that's the only thing I can really attribute my success to is keep going. Every time you hit a hurdle, you're going to be in pain. You just got to push forward. And, um, I think the cannabis industry has a huge amount of opportunity right now, specifically in hardware and growing and distribution and sales—everything. Um, and I think there's a huge space for people to keep pushing and keep going to have success. So yeah, it's almost cliche and, like, corny, but it's keep going.

Kyle: Yeah, man. You know, it's like failure is just as much a part of life as, uh, as death, you know.

Kyle: I don't think anybody gets through life without major failure. Nobody succeeds without major failure.

Kyle: And, well, thanks for your insight. It's been wonderful talking to you.

Davis: Thank you, man.

Kyle: Wish you a lot of success in the future.

Davis: Thanks, man. Thanks for having me.