Is Legalization Killing the Cannabis Industry?

Kyle: Hey everybody, I'm here with another special guest, Simón Espinosa. He's come all the way from Chile, and man, we've got another great episode of Grow Weed at Home for you. Great to meet you, man.

Simón: Dude, thank you so much! I'm a big, big fan. 

Kyle: Thank you! 

Simón: You've guided many generations—in Spanish too, man. 

Kyle: Wow. You know, for people out there who don't know, I just met Simón. He’s got himself a very popular platform for cannabis education, so we have some things in common here. I figured I'd ask him some questions, find out how things are going abroad, and maybe we can commiserate a little bit. 

Simón: Let’s see what happens.

Kyle: So, how long have you been doing this now?

Simón: It's been already a little bit over 11 years since we started with the website.

Kyle: Wow! And the website—I'm sorry, I got a little distracted—so the website has led you to a podcast?

Simón: Yeah, the website started evolving, and it generated different units within itself. It started growing into a very small and modest ecosystem that grew and grew over time. Now, it has become something very powerful and meaningful for our community. It's very symbiotic, I guess is the word. We grow, and we make each other grow. Absolutely.

Kyle: Well, that's what I was saying when we first sat down to talk. The honor and the respect of being here for the people—it goes both ways. Let’s go back a little bit. What was your start—not in the cannabis industry—but in opening up to others? Taking what you know or what you like and deciding to offer it to the public?

Simón: It's kind of crazy. The reason why I'm here now is that I'm part of a panel at MJB, but we’re actually heading back to Big Bear Lake.

Kyle: Say that again?

Simón: Big Bear Lake. 

Kyle: Big Bear Lake

Simón: The city next to the ski resort? Because I lived there for a season almost 17 years ago. I was very young, like 20 or 21. I remember because I could drink. We were not used to that in Chile—you could drink at like 15. It's not good, I'm not proud, but it’s real. That’s the place where I actually came to understand how the cannabis community became more united and solid through things like the medical prescription system. It helped patients and people access cannabis, and all of that had a huge impact on my life back then. I was already using cannabis in a more secret way down there, with a lot of shame.

Kyle: As we all were.

Simón: Yeah, with a lot of shame. For a long time, I carried different stigmas on myself. But when I came here, I saw something different. That’s when it changed. When I went back, I was a different person. I told myself, I'm going to make a living out of this. And I did. It was too strong for me—

Kyle: It was calling. Just like growing cannabis was for me.

Simón: Yeah, exactly.

Kyle: Same thing for me—teaching just became a natural next step.

Simón: Big disclaimer: I'm not a good grower. I love my weed, but I don’t grow a lot. Nothing compared to what great growers do.

Kyle: The name of the podcast is Grow Weed at Home.

Simón: Yeah, yeah.

Kyle: And it is “GWAH”. So I say, "Do you GWAH?" And they say, "Of course you do!"

Simón: Yeah, I have some at home, of course.

Kyle: There you go.

Simón: I love it. 

Kyle: You know, the reasons why we do it are way more important than the act itself. Yeah, so the reason you're doing it is as powerful as anybody else's. Yeah, it doesn't matter whether you think yours is the best weed or whether you grow the most. The reason you do it is as powerful as anybody else's reason.

Simón: Yeah, that's so true, man.

Kyle: Right?

Simón: Yeah, yeah. So we all—that’s the commonality, you know?

Kyle: For sure, 100%. Yeah. So what do you do on a daily—what’s your regular routine? You know, tending to the website?

Simón: Oh, I’m an entrepreneur, really. I have this startup that I have to keep alive. That takes most of my time, but I’m also a father, a proud father. And I love being a dad, so that’s my main priority, of course.

Kyle: Of course.

Simón: But then I have the second baby, which is my job that I love so much. I love it, and I think every day I wake up to keep building, you know? And I love it because every day is different. Like, I’m here today—this is huge for me. Like, honestly, thank you so much. It’s important, and it’s different from what it was yesterday. And I think what my real job is, is actually to keep dreaming—how to materialize something that is in a dream, in the world of ideas, and bring that down to an actual project that makes sense every day. And that I’m proud to be part of every day.

Kyle: Okay. But I do know that, unfortunately, I’m unfamiliar with the site, so I’m learning with everybody as we go. Do you write a lot, or do you research and find information and put it on the site to make it available for people?

Simón: Yes. So in terms of operation, we have a team of 12 to 15 people, depending on what projects we’re developing. But there are 12 people in the company every day doing podcasts, YouTube shows, streamings, and a lot of editorial content as well—writing. And we do have a person who is a big fan of you. I wish he was here today. He should have been, but he’s in the airport, right?

Kyle: Well, you just have to bring me out.

Simón: Yeah, Alvarito—a big shoutout to him. He’s a good grower, and beyond that, he’s a great educator. He loves teaching, and he has a deep passion for studying cannabis. He’s someone who really loves bringing it to the next step in terms of education and respect. He’s an amazing person.

Kyle: Does he do any live broadcasts for you?

Simón: Yeah, yeah. He has a show called Doubts of Cultivation or Questions About Great Cultivation.

Kyle: That’s great.

Simón: It’s very, very similar to what you do. Actually, we quote you.

Kyle: Nice. So is it all about cultivation, or do you also provide education and information on, like, how to use it or how to make edibles? How wide is the spectrum?

Simón: It’s very wide. We try to cover and bring cannabis topics that are kind of hard to speak about. Like, for example, what are the dangers of underage consumption? That’s one of our major branches. But we also bring information in a more educational approach, and by education, I mean comedy. That’s a vehicle we use a lot because we’ve realized that when you are laughing, you are more likely to share that content.

Kyle: And it also creates an emotion, and you’re open.

Simón: Exactly. People are enjoying that, honestly. So they want to share that experience. Also, when you laugh at something, it’s really nice to share it with someone you know will laugh as well. That’s a strong connection. Humor is a very intelligent way of experiencing communication, and I think that’s also a very powerful feeling. So we use humor quite a bit. I try to be who I really am, you know? Like, I’m an [ __ ] sometimes. Sometimes I’m not. I try to be honest. And I think that’s what got us this community that we’re part of. 

Kyle: You know, we’re all honest, we’re all dishonest, we’re all nice sometimes, and not nice sometimes. But it’s about the overview. Just because one time you told a lie doesn’t mean—

Simón: We’re really good liars, also. Yeah, humans.

Kyle: So what have you learned about the cannabis community doing this project?

Simón: What a good question, man. Thank you so much.

Kyle: I just thought of it. Imagine that.

Simón: Good question. I’m going to ask that question to other people like us who are part of this community. But what first came to mind—I'm going to try to say the first thing that really hit me. I think that we’re all in pain.

Kyle: Ah.

Simón: That’s what I learned. We’re all in pain. 

Kyle: The human condition is rough. 

Simón: The cannabis stigma also generates additional pain. It’s something very transversal, I would say. We’re all trying to prove ourselves and to prove to someone else that we’re worthy of something. Apparently. I keep trying to put my finger on it, but it escapes me. But we’re hurting. We hurt.

Kyle: That’s profound, man. I have a feeling that that concept is going to keep expanding for you.

Simón: Probably. It doesn’t feel like something too superficial.

Kyle: No. You haven’t put your finger on it yet. Yeah, like you said. 

Simón: It’s usually like that with these deeper problems. But I think we need to keep exploring that. Why do we feel like that?

Kyle: It’s kind of what makes me feel so special about the cannabis community—that openness. I meet people for the very first time and sit down and have very deep discussions. Very personal discussions sometimes.

Simón: Yeah.

Kyle: Sometimes it’s about their own health problems or their own troubles, you know? Cannabis puts you more in touch with yourself. And when you’re more in touch with yourself, it makes it easier to communicate with others.

Simón: That’s so true.

Kyle: Right?

Simón: Yes. 

Kyle: It’s really a facilitator as much as it is a medicine or a recreation. It’s a facilitator. I mean, look, all of this is facilitated through cannabis. All of these streams of information, all of these people generating a life and a career for themselves and their families—this is all cannabis.

Simón: I know. It’s crazy. One of the reasons we’re here is because we want to tell this to our community as well. We want to show them different realities and different perspectives.

Kyle: Different perspectives, exactly. Like, we’re all the same underneath it all. 

Simón: But this is unthinkable in my country. We want to tell them, "Hey, this is an option." It can be done. We just have to align ourselves in a few main things that we need to work together on, and we can also develop an industry.

Kyle: That thing about perspective—look, the camera’s not going to get this, but you know when I put my hand up, you can’t see me, right? And then I move my hand that much, and then there's something.

Simón: Yeah.

Kyle: That much—and that changes your whole perspective. So sometimes, people say take a breath, but sometimes you gotta take a step to the side or a step backward in order to move forward.

Simón: That’s so true.

Kyle: And that all comes out through relationships with cannabis.

Simón: It unfolds, right?

Kyle: Yeah.

Simón: That’s so true, man.

Kyle: So you get to learn as much as you teach.

Simón: All the time. Every single day of my life. I love that.

Kyle: Isn’t that great?

Simón: Yeah, he's amazing. 

Kyle: I don't know if you can do that pouring cement or building houses. 

Simón: There are people working in banks and [ __ ], but how much are they learning about people every day? Maybe in a different way they learn, but I couldn’t picture myself doing a job in a bank. No [ __ ]. It’s like a nightmare to me.

Kyle: Absolute nightmare.

Simón: Sorry, but—

Kyle: Like, you know what the worst would be? Sitting in a toll booth on the turnpike.

Simón: Oh [ __ ], yeah. I say that as well. That’s my next option. You know, like, like Inferno.

Kyle: So, unfortunately, half of Simón’s crew is stuck back in immigration, and our people are messing them up over there. It has nothing to do with cannabis.

Simón: No, nothing. We don’t know what’s happening, but we know they were not bringing any regulated substances. Right, but that’s why my mind is a little bit off today. I’m so sorry.

Kyle: So, you’ve traveled the world a little bit, yes?

Simón: Right, yeah, quite a bit.

Kyle: And you’ve been to places where it’s 100% illegal?

Simón: Yes.

Kyle: And places where it’s kind of legal?

Simón: Yes.

Kyle: And then you come to America, and you're like—they smoke out on the street.

Simón: Yeah, you can buy weed everywhere. Yeah, it’s crazy.

Kyle: What is the difference, do you think? Do you think that—look, I have a problem with Americans sometimes. I'm just going to get right to the question. Do you think that Americans don’t have a deep enough appreciation for it? Or do we?

Simón: Oh, that’s a hard question to answer.

Kyle: No disparaging, no disparaging. It’s just a feeling.

Simón: Yeah, first of all, I would say that I don’t know enough people to say. I might have a lot of biases when answering that question.

Kyle: Right, so what I’m saying is, you know, Americans feel very free—whether they are or not. We Americans take more freedoms than we actually have a right to. We don’t like anybody telling us that we can’t have something.

Simón: Yeah.

Kyle: Because America is the land of the free, home of the brave, right? "What do you mean I can't?" So, when you come here to America—see, because when I go to Amsterdam, for example, it used to be a Mecca. The first time I smoked a joint in Amsterdam, I cried.

Simón: I get that.

Kyle: It was emotional.

Simón: I remember myself, yeah.

Kyle: And a long time ago, I used to have a lot of emotions about it—like, "Wow, we just made it legal! Finally, these things happened!" And I just wonder, when you visit here, do you feel like there's still an appreciation for the plant, or does it just seem like McDonald's and Pepsi and Coca-Cola?

Simón: This place in particular has a different vibe. The people here are trying to make businesses, which is very legitimate, of course. But I also remember the vibes of coming to Denver when they legalized. There was an excitement, a vibe. That was what, 2017? Something like that?

Kyle: Yeah.

Simón: And that’s—you know, it's been some time. I think the right expression is "taking something for granted." That’s common. It’s hard to appreciate what you already have. I can see it even happening in my country. When we first started smoking weed on YouTube, people were wondering why we weren’t in jail. 

Simón: And now, ten years later, people smoke weed everywhere in Chile—nobody gives a [ __ ]. And I don’t think they realize that it’s not really legal, right? But they’ve just gotten used to it. I think it’s important to generate history and remember where we come from. 

Kyle Because we are a culture. 

Simón: We have to tell our story. That’s very important. And we have to repeat it for new generations. Like, they don’t know non-racist history. That story is new to them. Acapulco Gold is super exciting for them, right? We need to tell the story. How is hash made? All the basic questions need to be answered over and over again, just like teachers do in school. Maybe every year, we have a different approach, maybe we have new tools, but we need to pay our respects to the people that made us, to the ones that are fighting for liberation. We need to do that every day. We need to tell that story.

Kyle: I think that’s where I was leading you. I was kind of leading you into the fact that, because you come from a place where cannabis hasn’t been blown out to this extent yet—

Simón: No. We go through it every day.

Kyle: The appreciation level is still quite high.

Simón: This is insane to me. 

Kyle: And I respect it. I almost—I don’t want to say envy, but I look up to the idea that you are kind of where I was 20 years ago. Everyone is young and new and wide-eyed. They need to know everything, from how to plant a seed to how to water a plant. Right. Those days were a lot of fun.

Simón: Those days—Yeah, they’re fun for me now. I’m grateful, and I’m conscious of how important this is.

Kyle: Yes.

Simón: And at the same time, I see people excited in the U.S., right? But usually, those are the people who are trying the hardest.

Kyle: Absolutely.

Simón: The people who won’t lose their faith over stocks going down on Canopy Growth or whatever. They are doing their own thing.

Kyle: Right.

Simón: They’re looking for new ways to grow themselves—internally and professionally. They’re trying hard. You come on, you come on, right? You do that [ __ ], it’s hard.

Kyle: Yes.

Simón: It requires you to be updated all the time. Interviewing, going everywhere, shooting, looking over hours and hours of footage, trying to find that specific piece you need.

Kyle: That’s Matt, my producer. But, you know, I’ve had to pivot many times. I thought maybe I’d have a dog in the race and be a big cannabis brand or something. I have no regrets. I have no regrets. But that’s what’s so amazing about cannabis—it doesn’t put you into a box like other substances. It really expands as you use it.

Simón: I feel quite free professionally. I feel that I can change and do something else with all the resources we’ve grown and cultivated over the years. We could do a collaboration and something new anywhere, like the Institute of Cannabis in Malta. We could go there, do something new. And I think there’s such a huge educational gap—everywhere. Even in the U.S. Even in the U.S. Even, for example, with police officers. They’re not aware. They don’t give a [ __ ] sometimes.

Kyle: Yeah. Law, religion—both tamp down on freedoms, especially the use of mind-altering substances.

Simón: But you can always educate them. And there are so many resources needed there as well. That’s the whole thing. As long as you have faith in yourself, you’re going to do good in this industry. It’s a good industry to be in if you trust yourself. And if you know that sometimes there’s no money, you have to work for it. And sometimes, you can do good, too.

Kyle: Yeah. I’m happy to be here. I’m happy to be able to express myself the way I want. So, do you have any current big projects that you want to talk about? Any place you're going soon?

Simón: Yeah, man! I brought this for you. We just released this with our friends from El Banto. You know, they do premium pre-rolls.

Kyle: Oo, nice.

Simón: Yeah, and they did a collaboration with us. So, we're releasing this collaboration here in California.

Kyle: Really?

Simón: Yeah, it's a limited bud. But if you guys want to show some support, please go to your closest dispensary and try to get El Blano—the Enola version. It's a three-pack. We did Pisco Sour Diesel. 

Kyle: Nano Diamond infused. That sounds really nice. Yeah, it sounds really nice. I hope this is a success, you know?

Simón: It’s beautiful. Never—like, whatever happens, I like the idea that we could collaborate with a brand in the U.S. to bring a cannabis product to an actual shelf. That’s already mind-blowing, man.

Kyle: I know you wish you could bring some home.

Simón: I know! Everyone keeps telling me that, man. And I’m like, "I might do it, but I shouldn’t." But, yeah, I don’t know what I’m going to do.

Kyle: I know.

Simón: I didn’t do it! No!

Kyle: All right. Maybe, maybe a package to someone who lives out in the country or something. I don’t know. We’ll see about that.

Simón: No, you would never do that!

Kyle: Well, Simón, what else have you got planned for your educational platform?

Simón: Well, we are actually working on the first batch of online courses.

Kyle: Online courses?

Simón: Yeah. We've been studying quite a bit on where there is the biggest need for basic education, and we're targeting that first. Like, what’s not covered yet? We've gone through growing courses, and then we have "Grow Tender" for people that want to work in grow shops. That’s our retail down there, right? We don’t have—well, we do have dispensaries now, which is quite interesting, actually. So, we’re basically doing that, growing—

Kyle: Educating on consumption? You talk about responsible consumption?

Simón: Yes, yes. All the time. We also do product reviews for paraphernalia, smoking accessories, vaporizers, and so on. That’s my favorite part. Personally, I like hardware. I love pipes and all that.

Kyle: Yeah.

Simón: But also, all accessories. I have a peace pipe from a Navajo tribe, and I’m a collector of pipes. I love them so much. Yeah, I love the glass geek too.

Simón: Yeah, I’m a glass geek. I really love that part. And the glass blowers—they seem so… I love when they do their art. They seem so, like—I don’t know the word—but, like, in themselves, you know? It’s such a good thing to watch. It’s hypnotizing for me.

Kyle: Yeah, I love the glass too.

Simón: So, beyond that, we’re planning to shoot a new podcast next week with our good friend Koala Puffs. It’s a new project, so we’re very, very happy with that as well. And a few more things—it's all audiovisual production, mostly, plus a few events. We’ll see what happens.

Kyle: Very cool. Just keep sharing the love, man. It’s like the music industry—you find collaborations, and two people together make a bigger impact.

Simón: That’s what we’re hoping for, man. And I really, really hope it works.

Kyle: That is really awesome.

Simón: Hey, do you have a cameraman? Did they appear? No. Okay. Sorry.

Kyle: Was that one of your guys?

Simón: No, he's my brother, and he made it through.

Kyle: He made it through?

Simón: Yeah. We’re still waiting for the others, though.

Kyle: But no, not yet?

Simón: No, not yet.

Kyle: Well, I don’t really have any more wonderful questions in the back of my mind. Is there anything you’d like to ask me? Or anything you’d like to express to the viewers?

Simón: Wow, I didn’t know I had this opportunity! But, um, I think I would make the same question to you. What have you learned about the cannabis industry all these years? And being someone who has developed in a market that has it all—not really, I know—but what do you think is good from your model? And what do you think should change? Or what other regulation models do you think are better than the ones in the U.S.?

Kyle: Well, for California specifically, the best thing about our model is home grow. There technically is a limit on the books, but see—California has been generationally into cannabis for so long that so many people have gotten arrested and gone to jail. Some of these people had enough money to get good lawyers, and they’ve set precedents. Precedents such as: "I can't smoke weed anymore. I can only smoke the kief. So if I’m going to grow my own medicine, I have to grow at least eight pounds a year because I can only smoke the kief. And that is a legitimate medical response—because I have bad lungs or something—so I have to concentrate it." So in California, that’s the best part of it. The law really says you can grow as much as you need for your own personal consumption. If you need it, and your doctor agrees, you’re allowed to grow it.

Simón: And what do you think about everything else that happened in California with the cannabis industry?

Kyle: You know, it is really beyond me how, for 20, 30, 40 years, we had the drug war—trying to stamp out drugs, trying to get rid of marijuana—and then all they had to do to stamp out the business was legalize it.

Kyle: It wasn’t intentional. There may have been some—nobody thought it out is what I’m saying. Nobody thought, "You know what? If we legalize this, we will definitely ruin the industry." And, unfortunately—

Simón: Do you think it’s all the regulations?

Kyle: Well, it's ruined when you have tens of thousands of people who have been not only supporting their own lives with cannabis but also taking care of other people in their community and being compensated for it. You know, I work at Jiffy Lube, I make 15 bucks an hour, and I have four kids. 

Kyle: If I grow a little crop in my room, in my house, I can now save for their college education. There were thousands of people up in Northern California that did that for generations. They didn’t have great jobs, so they grew a little bit of cannabis. They worked hard, did what they were supposed to do, and had a little extra income to buy things for their family. And now, that’s all wiped out. 

Simón: No more. 

Kyle: You can’t make any money selling cannabis anymore. The price of cannabis has gotten so low that unless you have a million square feet and everything is automated, you can’t make any money off of it.

Simón: So, who’s making money today in the cannabis industry in California?

Kyle: The really, really big producers. The really large producers that have tens of thousands of square feet.

Simón: And what happened to everyone else?

Kyle: They shut down their [ __ ]. You know, I know five or six people personally who used to work their job and then grow in their garage just to have that little extra. You can’t sell it anymore. It costs more in electricity and time than you can make.

Simón: Is there a state in the U.S. that you would say has the best local regulation?

Kyle: No, I’m not that up on it.

Simón: Or any other country for that matter?

Kyle: It’s probably the freest here as it is anywhere, but the problem is America—America’s capitalism has run amok. We don’t know when we have a good thing, and we just muck it up.

Simón: You know, put extra bacon in it, right? 

Kyle: Like, you got to weigh every stem. And you have to keep track of everything you throw away. And if you miss one rule, then they'll come in and shut you down.

Simón: Yeah, you guys do that. You have so many rules, and you’re very strict with them.

Kyle: Yeah. So, guys like us—guys like me—who grew up in what was the cannabis industry, we didn’t have business degrees, you know? We didn’t have accounting or all that stuff. We didn’t need all of that. Now, with all of these restrictions, all of these regulations, all of these rules—it just spins most people’s minds. But that said, we've come a long way. Cannabis is legal in two-thirds of the states of America, or more, in some fashion. But, you know, it’s hard to celebrate when there are still a lot of people in jail. There are still people going to jail every day.

Simón: What would you celebrate? What would be the news that you are waiting for? Maybe it’s just your—

Kyle: Well, federal decriminalization, or just descheduling, or just some form of it. But they’re going to [ __ ] that up too. I have no doubt they’re going to [ __ ] that up too. Because nobody wants to recognize—no matter how old you are—your father, your grandfather, grew up in a world with marijuana. It was in your school, it was on your block, it was in the college, it was in the high school. Where’s the problem? Where is the problem?

Simón: Yeah.

Kyle: It’s just—it’s just—it’s just mind-boggling how we have— It’s jealousy. It’s jealousy.

Simón: That’s what you think it is?

Kyle: Yeah. They don’t want you to be so happy. Religion doesn’t want you to be so happy, for one thing. Okay. And religion still has a big grip on the world, okay? Look, I’m not here to say, “Don’t be religious” or anything like that just because I’m not. I’m just being honest. The religious constraints of what is right and what is wrong—they control society. You smoke a little bit of cannabis, and you realize that what’s good for you may not be good for me. And that’s okay. So why are you harshing on my business, you know?

Simón: It’s basically any structure that radicalizes at any extreme will generate social damage at some point, right?

Kyle: Yeah.

Simón: So, it could be religion. It could be economy. It could be any superstructure that has very rigid borders.

Kyle: That’s why, for me, the most important thing is—as you mentioned earlier, maybe not in the same words—to preserve the knowledge of the cannabis culture. The passing of the joint, you know? The so-called ceremonial peace pipe, the ritual, the passing of the peace pipe.

Simón: Yeah, we’ve been talking about this for quite a bit now. The ritual is important. We need to keep that alive. Passing that joint is not something that we should overlook.

Kyle: Right. You know, we all still have a lot to learn. But hey, we’re moving forward. And cannabis is just going to keep on growing for sure, no matter what anybody says.

Simón: Yeah, it doesn’t depend on us.

Kyle: No, it doesn’t. 

Simón: It’s going to be here after us.

Kyle: Simón, it was great talking to you.

Simón: It’s been an honor. Thank you very much.

Kyle: Hey, guys, this has been another great episode of Grow Weed at Home with Kyle Kushman from the MJ BizCon on Equity Row 40. See you next time.

Simón: See you! Thank you for your patience.